Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,359 Location: San Francisco
Co-writing agreement question « Thread Started on Nov 1, 2009, 2:22pm »
Was wondering how folks handle co-writing agreements for multiple songs over an extended period of time.
The agreement I have currently is really for one song at a time and I was hoping to be able to sign a co-writing agreement once and then do something like a "Schedule A" that gets amended every time a song is added so a new agreement doesn't have to be signed every time. Publishers do this all the time but I was wondering if anyone who does a lot of collabs with one person uses this format?
Was wondering how folks handle co-writing agreements for multiple songs over an extended period of time.
The agreement I have currently is really for one song at a time and I was hoping to be able to sign a co-writing agreement once and then do something like a "Schedule A" that gets amended every time a song is added so a new agreement doesn't have to be signed every time. Publishers do this all the time but I was wondering if anyone who does a lot of collabs with one person uses this format?
Thanks,
Mazz
I don't see why you couldn't do this. Just make sure the agreement references Schedule A and says something that songs added to the schedule automatically fall under the agreement. When new songs are added, you COULD have both of you initial new new schedule to be safe. *Personally* I think doing that by fax or email pdf is fine. Some are sticklers for snail-mailing originals to be absolutely 100% legal but many people are fine with faxes. Many deals I've signed have only been with faxes.
Was wondering how folks handle co-writing agreements for multiple songs over an extended period of time.
The agreement I have currently is really for one song at a time and I was hoping to be able to sign a co-writing agreement once and then do something like a "Schedule A" that gets amended every time a song is added so a new agreement doesn't have to be signed every time. Publishers do this all the time but I was wondering if anyone who does a lot of collabs with one person uses this format?
Thanks,
Mazz
Hey Mazz, I haved this kind of contract for my Ringtone Theatre cast members and collaborators. I'll email a copy to you . . . Suz
Was wondering how folks handle co-writing agreements for multiple songs over an extended period of time.
The agreement I have currently is really for one song at a time and I was hoping to be able to sign a co-writing agreement once and then do something like a "Schedule A" that gets amended every time a song is added so a new agreement doesn't have to be signed every time. Publishers do this all the time but I was wondering if anyone who does a lot of collabs with one person uses this format?
Thanks,
Mazz
Hey Mazz, I haved this kind of contract for my Ringtone Theatre cast members and collaborators. I'll email a copy to you . . . Suz
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 182 Location: North Hollywood
Re: Co-writing agreement question « Reply #8 on Nov 12, 2009, 2:09pm »
Interesting, so far I haven't written out an agreement with my collaborators, we just have a verbal agreement, doing an equal split. I'd love to get a copy of that agreement though, especially when I collaborate with people I don't know to well. It makes sense.
Re: Co-writing agreement question « Reply #9 on Nov 20, 2009, 9:22pm »
Hey all, Anyone doing a co-write had better get an agreement in writing. (Really jvbod69). I think most writers that fail to get it on paper think it will make people feel there's less trust and thus avoid treating each other as business partners, but the fact is that it will save a friendship... keep the band together.... further more, Having things in writing will insure all contributions will be actual and not based on memory.
Once there is a hint of success, you'll be glad that everything is on paper.
I haven't did a co-write, I am still looking forward to my first, but it won't be in the blind.
Songwriting is a business first... we make friends along the way.
Interesting, so far I haven't written out an agreement with my collaborators, we just have a verbal agreement, doing an equal split. I'd love to get a copy of that agreement though, especially when I collaborate with people I don't know to well. It makes sense.
You MUST sign an agreement with everyone. It shows that you care enough and respect them and yourself enough to get it in writing so there's no question later on down the road. Memory isn't reliable and if any real money is at stake ever, you'll wantvto be able to produce the documentation. Any publisher or producer worth their salt will demand to see it if you ate going to sign that piece. They won't touch it if you don't have it in place.
Interesting, so far I haven't written out an agreement with my collaborators, we just have a verbal agreement, doing an equal split. I'd love to get a copy of that agreement though, especially when I collaborate with people I don't know to well. It makes sense.
You MUST sign an agreement with everyone. It shows that you care enough and respect them and yourself enough to get it in writing so there's no question later on down the road. Memory isn't reliable and if any real money is at stake ever, you'll wantvto be able to produce the documentation. Any publisher or producer worth their salt will demand to see it if you ate going to sign that piece. They won't touch it if you don't have it in place.
Do it!
A few words about collab agreements, copyrights, and the differences...
If the ONLY thing multiple writers needed to prove was that they all are EQUAL co-writers, a US Copyright with all their names on it would be the only thing needed. There probably isn't a better accepted standard there (speaking as a U.S. person). This applies to both the underlying work - music and lyrics and, where applicable, any master recording(s). A PA form can be used to copyright music and lyrics... An SR form for sound recording OR sound recording & music and lyrics on one form.
Copyrights assume splits in equal shares and can NOT be used to document other splits. So, in the absence of other documentation, the splits must be assumed as equal.
Publishers or producers would be a fine with a copy of the copyright as documentation-- that in itself is not an issue.. But here comes the big BUT...
What if the splits on the songwriting are NOT equal? What if the splits on the master recording are NOT? These things actually can be independent of each other.
Who can sign deals and what types of deals? What if one or more of the co-writers can't be reached and a deal is on the table?
A collab agreement can be used to detail percentages and the "rules" for signing contracts. For example, it might say that all writers signatures are required for any and all contracts but if a writer can't be reached with N days or before the deal deadline, other(s) can sign. A Power of Attorney (POA) designation is needed to address that and it must specify how it applies to deals for the song (e.g. "composition" - publishing, mechanical licenses, etc) and any master recording (music libraries, film/TV licensing, etc).
Sometimes people co-write, 7 years later a deal comes up and a party can't be found anywhere on the planet. Believe it or not people sometimes stop showing up on the forum.
There may be a situation where one party contributes but is perfectly willing to allow other(s) to make all decisions on contracts. That POA could be specified up-front.
Even with all this, many publishers and libraries won't accept agreements without all party's signatures. I've had it go both ways. But done right, it can work and remember-- if you can't reach someone anyway, you have a good shot with this, none without.
None of this is legal advice-- all general concept. There used to be a starting template for a collab agreement on John Braheny's site but I don't see it anymore. But I'm sure there's plenty out there in Google-land.
I'm not a piano player, but I do have pianist envy.
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 3,813 Location: the wilds of Indiana
Re: Co-writing agreement question « Reply #14 on Nov 21, 2009, 5:03pm »
^^^^This is why Jvbod and others don't need an an agreement; if it's an equal co-write, it's enough to simply have all the names on the copyright paperwork. I've never worked any other way, because who's to say which tidbit of contribution is the key to a hit? This is why I lock the doors during writing sessions. If the drummer's boyfriend walked in, overheard something and said something like, "Shouldn't "girl" be plural?", that'd be as equal as anything else, and he'd have to be listed.
Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,359 Location: San Francisco
Re: Co-writing agreement question « Reply #15 on Nov 21, 2009, 6:48pm »
A copyright is the best for proving ownership, but an agreement should contain a power of attorney for either or both to promote the song. A song isn't worth anything if one of the writers doesn't agree on a publisher or usage. That part is what needs to be worked out. If you can't find the person, if the agreement is worded properly, you can still sign it.
I basically added a provision for a schedule a so that every time a song is added to it, it's covered under the original agreement. Saves sending contracts back and forth. Publishers and libraries do this all the time. So far so good.
Joined: Jan 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 4,866 Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Co-writing agreement question « Reply #16 on Nov 21, 2009, 7:38pm »
Hey Mojo Mazz and I are saying the same thing in our posts. There are other things that a copyright doesn't cover like POA to sign deals if the other person can't be reached. I'm assuming you read my absolute masterpiece of a post which covered a lot of that from the big BUT on...
Agree with your premise but it can get very complicated in a hurry. Especially when you're the producer (and "record label") and you own the masters.
Anyone up for a 10 person collab? (LOL)
Keeping the ownership of the song and the ownership of the masters separate would probably be the best policy. In other words, have an agreement between all 10 collaborators regarding the ownership, splits, POA, etc. Then deal with the masters under a different agreement.
Since licensing deals with a master license and a sync license, every writer needs to be clear on what that means and someone needs to be the single point of contact with the publishers, etc., when it comes time to do a licensing deal. If I was a publisher and saw a 10 person collab., you better bet that I'd be more than a little bit wary and it had better be a fantastic song and the paperwork would be airtight before I'd touch it. Talk about herding cats!
An extreme example, to be sure, but the lesson is: make sure your co-writers understand the business aspects before you write. Touchy-feely artists hate doing this stuff, but it's amazing how a flaky artist can turn into a bulldog when significant money is at stake.
My suggestion: Pretend that every song has the potential to get cut and to become a hit. What would you do then? It's called preparing for success by pretending you're already there. It's working for me so far.
Hey Mojo Mazz and I are saying the same thing in our posts. There are other things that a copyright doesn't cover like POA to sign deals if the other person can't be reached. I'm assuming you read my absolute masterpiece of a post which covered a lot of that from the big BUT on...
Casey
Hence the "look at the post above" arrows (^^^^) in my post. I was jes' elaborating. (or maybe belaboring is a better word)
Hey Mojo Mazz and I are saying the same thing in our posts. There are other things that a copyright doesn't cover like POA to sign deals if the other person can't be reached. I'm assuming you read my absolute masterpiece of a post which covered a lot of that from the big BUT on...
Casey
Hence the "look at the post above" arrows (^^^^) in my post. I was jes' elaborating. (or maybe belaboring is a better word)
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