Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 2,795 Location: NASHVILLE!!
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #2 on Nov 8, 2009, 4:17pm »
I went on Friday. I try to hit at least one of his classes every year because they ROCK!!! (Last year, for the very first time, his class opened my eyes and ears to the "sonic landscape" that exists between the monitors. It suddenly made sense to me and became a tangible, 3-dimensional thing. It was truly a light bulb moment.*)
And I'm saying that as someone with ZERO ability to record my own (or anyone else's) vocals.
For now, that is...
Give me a few days to absorb everything from this weekend and to try to better organize my class notes, and I'll post 'em up. Deal?
Ted
*Thank you, Raags, for planting the seeds that allowed that to happen.
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 51 Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #5 on Nov 11, 2009, 12:50am »
I went to his Vocal Recording class on Friday? I took notes they may not be exactly what he said, and I may be emphasizing things I have done wrong as a indication to myself:
Rule 1: Have something worth recording - ie emotion, sound, etc Rule 2: Whatever it takes to satisfy rule#1 do it - make the vocalist comfortable, candles, lighting, mic stand with a fake mic on it and the recording mic on a boom... etc You don't want to worry about all the tech stuff while getting the vocal take, because you'll get a take that's ruined and it may have been a fantastic performance that's wasted.
The red light is bad. bad. bad. bad. You don't want your levels too hot, you want them low and conservative. Distortion is bad, unless you are recording on analog than digital. The loud part of a vocal -10db. That is all you will ever need. In 24 bit, -20db is all you ever need.
There's two different kinds of Mics, Condenser and Dynamic. One mic does NOT fit all vocalists. You want to use the right mic for the right vocalists. Shure SM58 (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't write the number down) beat out $2000 mics all the time. A lot of studio albums (U2, etc) vocals have been recorded with a dynamic Shure mic. You want the vocalist in the right head space. See rule #2. Make the vocalist comfortable, and in the mode to get the right take. The small tight vocal booth isn't always the best place to record. Sometimes muting the vocalist in the headphones, helps get the take.
Put mic on a stand crank speakers record vocal track (I think this is in reference to the guy in a club who sounds awesome, but you get him into the studio and he's quiet and clams up and doesn't give a great performance.)
Omni directional mics are bad for recording vocals in the studio. The more directional a mic, the better.
Not everyone is a rock and roll dude.
Psychology when working with other vocalists, they are: vulnerable, out of their comfort zone, and nobody likes their crappy parts highlighted. When doing a retake, make them comfortable. Not everyone does well with recording short segments, some vocalists need to do the whole thing. If the vocalist is giving a crappy performance, do what it takes to get the good vocal: see rule #2. Hold their hand, make them feel like a rockstar, etc...
Pops and Ps, use the screen not just as a wind screen, but also as an anchor or stability point so the vocalists isn't thinking about how far away they need to be from the mic. Tilt the mic for pops and ps, you lose a little presence, but not so much that it affects the vocal. See rule #2.
Space to record in. Tiny rooms suck. Classical music - space and sound of the room and that's how they get the sound for that type of vocal. To make a simple booth, packing blankets on two sides of the vocalist will give adequate padding. The vocal booth is important for rock,pop, r&b etc. Make walls out of blankets.
Be judicious with reverb Play with delay before reverb.
Compression is used on all vocals since Elvis. 1-3 on the individual track minimum. Vocals by the time mastering happens, get compressed at least 7 times. Analog does compression better than digital. Chain digital compressors - have each do a little bit, spread the labor across multiple compressors. One doing a lot of compression sucks. Good compression will make it feel more alive. Change the order of different compressors around.
That's it for my notes on this class! Hope it helps!
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #8 on Nov 11, 2009, 8:51am »
Thanks very much, Rebekah. I like stuff like this that has a bit of tech, but is mostly philosophy. I'm learning it's much more important to have the right concept of what I'm trying to record than it is to have just the right knob settings. Excellent, and thanks again!
Joined: Nov 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 51 Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #9 on Nov 11, 2009, 10:38am »
Devin let me correct, no, I don't know how to make a good vocal, I can sing, but I'm working on recording at home, this was a great class and I learned a lot. I'll use Scott Ross to record vocals for a final project, long before I'll rely on my own recording talents.
I'm not a piano player, but I do have pianist envy.
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 3,813 Location: the wilds of Indiana
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #10 on Nov 11, 2009, 2:59pm »
Good stuff! I take issue with one thing, though. A more directional mic is not always better for studio vocals. I love to use omni and ribbon (figure eight) mics for group backing vocals, for instance, and sometimes a supercardioid or hypercardioid (more directional than cardioid) will pick up too much sound from the rear if you record a vocalist in a room with the band. (yeah, I know, hardly anybody does it that way, nowadays) Probably good to stick to cardioid for most pop-type lead vocal stuff that'll be compressed a dozen times, though-unless it's for effect.
I recently had a bass player in (who'll remain nameless, as he's rather well-known in certain circles) with a serious case of red-light fever. (by the way, you should have a red light, but outside the room so people don't walk in in mid session, or pound on the door-just not where the singer can see it)
So this guy who can and does tear it up on backing vocals night after night on the gig is blowing take after take in the studio. I hung a bass on him and told him to play along with the track-didn't even plug it in, and he nailed the backups to four songs in, like half an hour. Ronan's right about that- whatever it takes.
Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 4,359 Location: San Francisco
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #11 on Nov 11, 2009, 3:40pm »
Ronan produced my wife's most recent album last year. They did a mic shootout with a lot of really nice mics, and the 58 won for her voice and the type of music they were doing. He has a nice selection of mics to choose from so it wasn't about settling for a 58, that's for sure. He ran it through some old preamp that used to belong to Neil Young and it sounded really great. Whatever works is what works. It's about the music first and whatever tools work for the music.
Oh, and if you want to know how well your relationship is doing, try recording your spouse's vocals!!
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #14 on Nov 11, 2009, 6:08pm »
Mazz.... You maded me LOL with the spousal comment. At ast year's Rally, I took a Ronan class. I asked if he recommended any certain model fo studio monitors. He did, I wrote it down, and weeks later, purchased a pair of those monitors from an estate sale on eBay. I emailed Ronan about it, who replied by saying he has never used those before, but they should work good. Now you are thinking...wait! He recommended a certain monitor brand that he never used? Yes, this is true. What Ronan did NOT tell me was that the model he used were active monitors. I happened to purchase a pair of the non-active. Go figure, huh? But that's fine. The even BIGGER irony is...I have never used MY monitors, yet. Not long after I got them, I took a looooooong break from recording! I am now preparing to record again. I still wanna be a true Rockstar and, at 44 years old, I still have strong vocals, but in 10 years? Who knows????
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 5 Location: Milwaukee
Re: Ronan Chris Murphy's class on recording vocals « Reply #16 on Nov 12, 2009, 1:04pm »
I was also in the session on recording vocals. As others have pointed out, one of the things that was stood out for me was the concept of using dynamic mics like the Shure SM57 or SM58 on lead vocals. Before that session I was thinking about getting a new main vocal mic.
Now I need to dig out my old stage mics and give them a try. Currently I only use the SM57 on guitar amps and I never use the SM58s at all. I have also noticed that lots of producers are using the larger Shure SM7b dynamic broadcast mic on lead vocals. I am anxious to try one of those out as well.
Ronan produced my wife's most recent album last year. They did a mic shootout with a lot of really nice mics, and the 58 won for her voice and the type of music they were doing. He has a nice selection of mics to choose from so it wasn't about settling for a 58, that's for sure. He ran it through some old preamp that used to belong to Neil Young and it sounded really great. Whatever works is what works. It's about the music first and whatever tools work for the music.
Oh, and if you want to know how well your relationship is doing, try recording your spouse's vocals!!
Mazz
he is a cool guys. I enjoyed his class and learned quite a bit. PS: Regarding recording your spouse, I don't know about you guys but my ex used to record me, not for very long, hahahaha
I went to his Vocal Recording class on Friday? I took notes they may not be exactly what he said, and I may be emphasizing things I have done wrong as a indication to myself:
Rule 1: Have something worth recording - ie emotion, sound, etc Rule 2: Whatever it takes to satisfy rule#1 do it - make the vocalist comfortable, candles, lighting, mic stand with a fake mic on it and the recording mic on a boom... etc You don't want to worry about all the tech stuff while getting the vocal take, because you'll get a take that's ruined and it may have been a fantastic performance that's wasted.
The red light is bad. bad. bad. bad. You don't want your levels too hot, you want them low and conservative. Distortion is bad, unless you are recording on analog than digital. The loud part of a vocal -10db. That is all you will ever need. In 24 bit, -20db is all you ever need.
There's two different kinds of Mics, Condenser and Dynamic. One mic does NOT fit all vocalists. You want to use the right mic for the right vocalists. Shure SM58 (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't write the number down) beat out $2000 mics all the time. A lot of studio albums (U2, etc) vocals have been recorded with a dynamic Shure mic. You want the vocalist in the right head space. See rule #2. Make the vocalist comfortable, and in the mode to get the right take. The small tight vocal booth isn't always the best place to record. Sometimes muting the vocalist in the headphones, helps get the take.
Put mic on a stand crank speakers record vocal track (I think this is in reference to the guy in a club who sounds awesome, but you get him into the studio and he's quiet and clams up and doesn't give a great performance.)
Omni directional mics are bad for recording vocals in the studio. The more directional a mic, the better.
Not everyone is a rock and roll dude.
Psychology when working with other vocalists, they are: vulnerable, out of their comfort zone, and nobody likes their crappy parts highlighted. When doing a retake, make them comfortable. Not everyone does well with recording short segments, some vocalists need to do the whole thing. If the vocalist is giving a crappy performance, do what it takes to get the good vocal: see rule #2. Hold their hand, make them feel like a rockstar, etc...
Pops and Ps, use the screen not just as a wind screen, but also as an anchor or stability point so the vocalists isn't thinking about how far away they need to be from the mic. Tilt the mic for pops and ps, you lose a little presence, but not so much that it affects the vocal. See rule #2.
Space to record in. Tiny rooms suck. Classical music - space and sound of the room and that's how they get the sound for that type of vocal. To make a simple booth, packing blankets on two sides of the vocalist will give adequate padding. The vocal booth is important for rock,pop, r&b etc. Make walls out of blankets.
Be judicious with reverb Play with delay before reverb.
Compression is used on all vocals since Elvis. 1-3 on the individual track minimum. Vocals by the time mastering happens, get compressed at least 7 times. Analog does compression better than digital. Chain digital compressors - have each do a little bit, spread the labor across multiple compressors. One doing a lot of compression sucks. Good compression will make it feel more alive. Change the order of different compressors around.
That's it for my notes on this class! Hope it helps!
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Probably good to stick to cardioid for most pop-type lead vocal stuff that'll be compressed a dozen times, though-unless it's for effect.![[avatar]](http://bj.userimages.s3.amazonaws.com/17/17929/17929_185802.jpg)
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